Image Credit: Dan SmithFor the record, I love Hit Girl in Kick-Ass. She’s a resourceful, quick-thinking daughter who loves and respects her Daddy, does her homework, and has an admirable sense of responsibility, self-determination, and family pride. Also, she’s got a way with language. No sane kid will confuse this cartoon character’s fantastic, murderous antics with appropriate real-life behavior. (Insane kids are beyond the help of role models in a comic-book movie.)
What outrages me, though, is what hasn’t warranted a shrug of disapproval, either from Concerned Parents or from Clucking Media. It’s this: When Dave Lizewski, the average teen with super-hero dreams, is seriously injured while first trying out his skills as Kick-Ass, he is self-conscious enough to request that the ambulance workers who rescue him dispose of his home-made costume. And as Dave begins to heal, his father’s biggest manly concern is that, since his son was allegedly discovered naked, the young man might be gay.
Back at school, the rumor spreads quickly: Dave is, oooh, gay! Tee-hee! Even his best friends tease him mercilessly. (In the screenwriter’s hypocritical nod to propriety, Dave’s classmates call him a “lame duck,” rather than anything more offensive.) Indeed, the pretty girl Dave pines for, a popular cutie who otherwise wouldn’t give him the time of day, adopts him as a close friend because he’s harmessly, tee-hee, gay! The two even share sleepover dates — which is funny because we know Dave is a horny heterosexual!
Well. What if the rumor spread that Dave was Muslim? Or Puerto Rican. Or left-handed. Or deaf. And he had to protest that he wasn’t. Is that funny, too? I wish I could express myself with the freedom of vocabulary granted to Hit Girl when I say that the nonchalance of this unexceptional sexism is appalling. No, worse than that, it’s evil. Because while sane kids aren’t likely to take up firearms inspired by a fictional little girl in a mask and a purple wig, they are absolutely likely to repeat the behavior of Dave’s classmates. Average movie-going teens, after all, think nothing of declaring “that’s so gay” to make another kid shrivel with discomfort.
Hey, Kick-Assers, what if Dave Lizewski is gay: So what? Hey, Hollywood, the sexist crap stops only when movies pitched as cool-for-the-kids don’t perpetrate this bigotry. Don’t make me go all Hit Girl on your buttocks.
Oh, Lisa, how I love you! As a gay man, I’ve become immune to this kind of homophobic non-sense in Hollywood. By the way, I actually told my students once to substitute “That’s so gay” with an ethnicity to show them how offensive it is.
Anyways, thanks for this.
Such as “That’s so Ukrainian” or “That’s so Raven”.
That’s so…girl wearing skirt as a top.
“That’s so Raven” LOLOLOL!!
God, you are SO black
yea but it wouldn’t have been funny if people started thinking he was Muslim or Ukrainian. it would have been stupid. gay jokes are funny and not always homophobic just like race jokes are funny and not always racist just like fat jokes are funny and not always judgmental.
also, I LOL’d @ the “gay bigotry” tag.
atavanhalen,
Just because you think gay jokes aren’t homophobic doesn’t mean they aren’t. I’m guessing you aren’t an expert in gay culture and homophobia.
Will,
I said they aren’t ALWAYS homophobic, you ignorant bigot.
Atavanhalen, I understand what you’re saying, but the thing is (as far as I can tell), the comments in Kick-Ass aren’t supposed to be jokes.
“a popular cutie who otherwise wouldn’t give him the time of day, adopts him as a close friend because he’s harmessly, tee-hee, gay! The two even share sleepover dates — which is funny because we know Dave is a horny heterosexual!”
I’m half Ukrainian and I wouldn’t find it offensive if there was someone who was an alcoholic or overly emotional and someone said “That’s so Ukrainian”. That’s because slavic people aren’t offendable a**holes and actually have a sense of humor about themselves. This is not to say that gays never have a right to complain, but why don’t people settle the f**k down when something is BARELY offensive. Can’t they concentrate on hate crimes and being beaten to death for homosexuality instead of hopelessly misconstruing a joke in a movie (that not that many people went to see, mind you)
And the dad was concerned that his son was raped, not that he was gay, you retarded movie editor. Oh, and by the way, your movie reviews suck ass. Had to get that out there while I’m at it.
I’m a gay dude and I found it hilarious. How many gay guys pretend to be straight in high school? I thought the reversal was very funny, and justified. Lighten up. Maybe. Just a little.
Lisa, you need to lighten up a bit. Please stop playing the victim
Exactly. Lisa needed something to write about today and decided to make up a controversy where there is none.
Lisa, how many times are you going to try to start a comment war? You did it with Remember Me and now this? Ugh, it’s just getting old. Stop ruining good movies! Not everyone likes The Last Song and New Moon the way you do.
If when I was in highschool, I could have had sleepovers with the popular hot chick, I would have had no problems being the gay friend.
Yeah, I don’t think the movie or his friends were making fun of him for “being gay,” they were just making fun of the fact that a hot girl who he had been persuing had only started talking to him BECAUSE she thinks he is gay. And, come on, that is pretty funny.
Yes please lighten up. It is just a damn movie.
Yeah, dumb movie. No teenager has ever said “that’s so gay” and now this movie is gonna spread that. This article was so gay.
Right now I am in high school, and sadly, if rumors started that someone was gay, his friends would tease him and people would treat him differently. And unfortunately rerun, “that’s so gay” is still an extremely popular insult and joke.
not that it’s JUST a movie…but it’s JUST not offensive. at all.
I agree with Hardy
You gotta be kidding me! Why don’t we just make gay people untouchable kings and queens? Are they above reproach or jokes? Grow the hell up, people!
I thought the implication was that Dave was raped by the muggers? Then the “gay” rumor was just the consequence of a bizarre game of telephone.
But he wasn’t pretending to be gay; other people thought he was gay.
Biff, no one’s saying gay people are ‘above’ reproach or jokes, but there’s a fine line between a joke and an insult.
Nathan, yeah, that’s exactly what I meant. Not so much on the raven part, though. Drake, I’m always making fun of my gayness but this is something else. It’s just perpetuating the “harmless gay” archetype that is so prevalent in movies. It’s not that much of a big deal. I was just glad someone noticed it.
@Renee, race is actually a social construction and has no real basis in blood, or genetics. So actually, since sexual orientation isn’t a choice or a social construction, it seem ironic that we are less sensitive to stereotypes and derogatory comments.
Luis there is a HUGE difference between being gay and your ethnicity. They aren’t exactly interchangeable. No one ever says “that’s so canadian” when they think it’s retarded!!
Actually Allie, there is absolutely no difference, but I wouldn’t expect someone who uses the term ‘retarded’ to understand why.
Gosh, you’re so Allie! There’s no difference whatsoever…you don’t choose to be of a certain ethnicity, just as you don’t choose who you are attracted to.
Yes, genius, sexual identity and cultural or ethnic identities are completely different things. That doesnt mean that one is somehow more sacrosanct than the other. I mean, come on, to think that is SOOOO black.
Allie, you’re right that there is a huge difference. It’s an insult to compare the two. One is defined by blood, the other is defined by behavior.
Really? Sexual identity is defined purely by behavior? So, you wouldn’t consider yourself straight even if you had a one nighter with Allie?
That behavior would define you as a lesbian. I find yours and Allie’s opinions on this soooo hetero!
Actually there is a big difference between sexual orientation and ethnicity/race. A gay man can pretend to be straight and have intercourse with women, but a black person cannot pretend to be white. Two different realities. Gay people really need to stop trying to put themselves in the same category.
Just because one person can pretend and another person can’t, doesn’t mean it’s different, Corinne. Pretending is not being. If it was reversed, are you saying you would “pretend” to be gay, if that was what the majority wanted you to do? And how would that feel for you, do you think?
Actually, depending on how light-skinned you are, a black person can pretend to be white… go look up Fredi Washington and the movie “Imitation of Life” (the 1934 version starring Claudette Colbert).
Why does it even matter if there is a difference or there isn’t? That doesn’t make prejudice toward either okay.
And I really wish people would stop calling things they don’t like “retarded”. That’s “so offensive” to those of us with mentally/emotionally challanged loved ones!
@s’wonderful
I was about to bring up the exact same movie…okay, maybe not the EXACT same movie (I was going to bring up the Douglas Sirk version myself). I think the portrayal of the mother in the 50s version is stronger/more progressive, but that version also has a drawback of not having a black actress play the character who is trying to “pass.”
But yeah, good call there.
But aside from that, I’m not going to get into the “which minority has it worse” game. I hate it even more than Scrabble, and I really can’t stand Scrabble. It seems also to be a way to keep us fighting amongst ourselves instead of making change happen.
You, obviously, are Canadian.
I’m from Seattle, and I use the terms Canadian and Retarded interchangeably, as do many of my cohorts. I also use gay, gaywad, and even Retarded Canadian Gaywad. That one is actually my favorite. And I even *gasp* quote Chris Rock on a regular basis and I am a white chick. Why? Because he’s my favorite comedian it reaches Retarded Canadian Gaywad levels of ridiculousness how freaked out people get when a white chick, quoting Chris Rock, uses the n word. But you know what? The Political Correctness Brownshirts can all suck it. And if you can’t have a sense of humor about this mess that is humanity than it sucks to be you.
Get off your high horse, Lisa! You are not morally superior by nitpicking a movie. There are bigger fish to fry.
The father wasn’t concerned that he was gay. The father was concerned that he had been raped. There IS a difference. In most high schools, if a guy is labeled “gay” it would have serious repercussions for him, true or not. Yes, that is still true these days in most places. Ask kids in New York, Detroit, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Duluth, Sioux City, Denver, and on and on. At least they didn’t go into the “bad” repercussions (such as getting beat up by the jocks.) They played it for humor, and in effect made being gay a “positive” as it allowed him to hang out with the hot girl of his dreams, spray tan her nude body, and have sleepovers. I didn’t take his being labeled “gay” in the film as bad. The producers actually made it “fun” and funny.
darclyte, you are completely correct. Lisa is just manifacturing a story against filmmakers that do not deserve it. I also think it is unfair that Hollywood is catching flack for this one. This is a independently financed film done outside the studio system by British filmmakers. If Kick-Ass went through the studio wringer the film would have been homogenized and PCed up Schwarzbaum-style, and would have become lesser film in the process.
darclyte, my thoughts exactly. The father was worried his son was RAPED, not gay. Also, instead of being offended by the gay rumors, Dave basically embraces them. As a gay man, it didn’t offend me at all.
Correctamundo darc. As if no one has heard the term “f-g hag”. I don’t mean to be deft, but how is this any worse than Tootsie or Boys Don’t Cry. Granted BDC was a true story, but if we can’t laugh at ourselves you might as well put on your burqa and pray to Sara Palin.
I also thought that the dad was concerned that his son was raped. I think Lisa misinterpreted the movie. And I don’t feel that the movie was trying to make fun of being gay, but rather making fun of the kid that was having to pretend to be gay.
When I saw the movie I didn’t realize that was the fathers implication. I thought he was concerned that his son had been sexually assaulted. It didn’t cross my mind until I read this article that he was concerned that his son was gay. I guess that’s me looking thru my lense as a female….or just what was the most logical assumption to me
No, you were viewing the movie correctly, whereas Lisa has it completely wrong.
You had it right, Lisa, again was wrong. And the movie didn’t stereotype. That’s what happens in the real world and if a movie can’t show what happens in the real world to extends so much further into la la land. There was nothing wrong with the movie and it’s gay humor.
The reason why the joke is funny is because of something called irony. Dave’s supposed “gayness” helps him get close the girl he likes, but simultaneous precludes the romantic relationship that he longs for. If anything, the scene mentioned in the column (in which the father is relieved to know that his son isn’t gay) only serves to highlight the absurdity of having such blatently homophobic concerns. In my view, there is a clear separtion between the character depicted on the screen, and the message and intentions of the film and its director.
kickass kicks ass
That’s so black….I like it.
Lol, seriously? I dont know if you noticed, but this movie is not set out to be pc. Anything goes.
Exactly. What were you expecting in a movie with ultra-violence and profanity?
Oh no! Please tell me the movie doesn’t have, gasp, profanity! F**k!
Dave didn’t seem that mad about it. The fact that he went along with the homo-sham, I think, shows that being gay isn’t that “bad” anymore.
i didnt find the movie to be as gay-panicky as that Adam Sandler Kevin James movie that came out a couple of years ago
ugh. the comic was written with KA being a gay hooker after the assault so the movie actually brought it down a little. also, last time i checked kids still insult each other with calling them gay or worse. this story point was a lot more reflective of real life then the rest of the movie.
Completely agree with tinap…in the comic, Dave is able to strip off his suit before the paramedics arrive. It becomes a rumor that he is a prostitute and that a john beat him up. There should be no controversy here, and quit trying to bring down a good movie. This movie is tame compared to Eminem and “The Marshall Mathers LP”. Listen to that if you want to be offended by anti-homosexual messages, not because a nerdy kid pretends to be gay in order to interact with a girl he likes.
Hell, Glee is more stereotypical of homosexuals than Kick-Ass!
Better stay away from “Hot Tub Time Machine” ………
“also, last time i checked kids still insult each other with calling them gay or worse.”
I think that’s the point Lisa was making. These kinds of “tauntings” will only continue if it’s still made popular in movies and what not, and how do you think it makes the actual gay kids feel? As a gay man myself, I get kind of tired hearing “that’s so gay” as a pejorative all the time, even amongst my own friends, who then say they’re sorry for saying it and so on and so forth, but again, that’s the point! That’s how this country’s youth have been conditioned and all Lisa is saying is that it’s time that it stops, and I agree, but some movies/tv shows/music/entertainment just don’t help the situtation.
As a gay man who absolutely loved the movie, I agree with you to an extent. This definetly is a problem in Hollywood, especially when this behavior is being mimiced by kids on a large scale and adults are too irresponsible to do anything about it. We have seen all of the consequences of this mindset (bullying, suicide, self-loathing) and its a serious issue that should be talked about.
However, with Kick Ass, I felt the movie was so outrageous and I was having such a good time watching it and I almost didn’t notice the gay panic humor. I think there are plenty worse offenders out there.
Agreed. And to the movie’s (and director’s and actor’s) defense, at least they didn’t have Dave “camp it up” once he decided to go with the whole gay facade.
Admittedly, the movie (and Millar’s comic) could have played around with the whole idea of closets in superheroics and dual identities, etc….but that would be a different movie…or a 3 hour one.
Boring debate. Hollywood isn’t influencing behavior. Hollywood is simply reflecting it.
Despite the progress that has been made in stripping (he said “stripping” hee hee) homosexuality of any stigma, teens still find it to be an easy way to insult each other.
Deal with it.
@kyle: your post reads like you’re saying Hollywood has a problem with homophobia… unless it’s in a movie you like and then it’s OK.
His dad wasn’t asking him if he was gay, his dad (awkwardly) was asking him when he was mugged, knifed and found naked if he had been “assaulted”…he never came out and said it but that was what the unspoken question was.
I agree with Jeremy’s interpretation–I thought that Dave’s father was concerned that his son had been raped. I’m not sure why the character being found naked would have anything to do with his sexual orientation…given the injuries he sustained, it was clear that a lot of non-consensual activities had been inflicted on Dave that day.
In general, I found this movie a lot less disturbing than the homophobia that underpins the humor and story of a film like “Hot Tub Time Machine”. At least “Kick Ass” acknowledges that performing oral sex on a friend/seeing a friend of the same sex naked/being thought gay is not the worse thing that can happen to a human being…one could be brutally stabbed in a parking lot, for instance.
That’s how I took it too. The dad’s concern was not that his son might be gay, but that his son might have been raped.
Thank you! I, too, took the father’s concern that his child was found naked after he just had the living hell beat out of him was about whether Dave had been raped. Why on earth would you interpret a question in that situation as a father asking his son if he was gay? That part of Lisa’s rant particularly pisses me off. I assumed the later gay rumors at Dave’s school to be from a totally different source – the minds of high school kids, which can be cruel and delight in starting rumors just for gossip’s sake. Unfortunately, lots of kids at that age who are too insecure/dorky/awkward to have found girlfriends or boyfriends are taunted by being called gay. I’m about 75% sure I was called a d*ke behind my back at my school because I never dated anyone, which was just because I was shy and not popular – I probably had a crush on every guy I ever went to school with. (Plus, I wasn’t built too girly, with broad shoulders and all). It’s just kids being kids. I’m hoping that as time goes by, maybe by the time my own kids are in high school, “gay” won’t be seen as a viable insult, but that’s the truth of things now, and Kick-Ass is all about the unpleasant reality of the real world. And as for Dave pretending to be gay so that he can hang out with and maybe eventually make a move on the girl – it’s gross and creepy, sure, but homophobic? Isn’t it kind of the opposite, when being thought of as gay is considered a good thing by the “accused”? Nobody called him the f-word. Nobody judged him for being gay. He didn’t “swish it up” any, as Sue Sylvester might say. I’m sorry if anyone found anything about the gay stuff in this movie to be offensive, but I don’t understand why it would be in the least. And believe me, I’m usually pretty good at being able to see from different perspectives and understand why something seemingly harmless to me might hurt someone else. But in this case, I just don’t get it.
First of all, it’s not Hollywood…This is based on a comic book in case you were unaware. Should the movie writers have changed that entire plot point in order to be more PC when the rest of the movie obviously is not? Plus, Dave doesn’t argue against what everyone is saying. In fact he goes with it in order to hang out more with the girl. Sure, he rolls his eyes at the comments but otherwise he doesn’t “protest that he isn’t.”
I agree. I am gay and I sit through these movies and it makes me uncomfortable. All of my straight friends look at me to see if I think its okay to laugh and I never want to be the that guy whose like, “THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!” God knows I don’t want to make it a thing. But at the same time, I don’t like when it happens. I was never more uncomfortable than during The Hangover when they said that horrible “Paging Dr. F@GG@t” joke. And I hate it even more when I hear teenagers quoting it.
I’ll agree with the Hangover line. I’m in college, and I heard a guy say it to another kid, and I felt so disgusted.
I so agree! That line was 10 minutes into the movie, and from then on I hated all the “likable” characters. I don;t get how movies like that get away with it. Imagine Bradley Cooper shouting “paging doctor ni**er!” and see if the audience still is on his side.
And yes, it IS important, as kids routinely harass kids who are perceived to be gay — and even, shockingly regularly, MURDER them.
Totally Agree!!!!!!!!!!
Agree with Lisa too! If Hollywood doesn’t change this, then no one ever will. Hollywood is the perfect way to change peoples minds about racism and sexism and if they don’t do it, it doesn’t happen.
For once, I agree with Lisa. As a gay man I found it disheartening that the writers had to go the cheap route and use gay as insults. Perhaps, the movie was not supposed to be politically correct but it is hard not recognize that these gay bashing qualities only perpetuate the idea that it is okay to use gay as an insult.
you have a point Lisa.
Dave was the worst part of the movie anyways. The stupid thing should have just been about Hit Girl. Way better story, and fewer stupid jokes about the hot girl thinking you’re gay and then sleeping with you anyways. I felt like Liz Lemon in the theater: “Commencing eyeroll sequence in 3… 2… 1.”
I completely agree. It’s time for Hollywood to stop using the “pretending to be gay to get close to a girl” plot device. It’s super insulting.
Even though sadly in real life it works?
At least in the comic it backfires.
Insulting to who? Hot girls?
Complain if you want, Lisa, but this sort of thing still happens in schools. I found this an honest depiction of teenage behavior. It would have been lame if they were PC about it. And yes, less funny.
I think the point is that this isn’t a drama showing that this sort of behavior is hurtful and unacceptable. Since this is a comedy using the insults for laughs, they are giving validation to this sort of behavior. Of course, I could also say the same of jokes about obesity. Homosexuality and obesity are, for some reason, still seen as acceptable things to make fun of and discriminate against.
Difference is you can do something about obesity, and it’s unhealthy.
Matt, prepare for a lengthy rant about your unfortunate attitude. My apologies to other readers for the off-topic-ish nature of the post. Obesity is also a medical illness that is very difficult to correct once you get to be obese. I don’t judge people with lung cancer; I don’t even judge them for smoking, as long as they keep far enough from me that I don’t have to breathe it. I don’t mock people with physical disabilities or with any dieases. I might wonder at the intelligence of laying yourself down inside an irradiated coffin for a tan, but I’m never cruel to people who do it. Why does everyone get to be cruel to me because, for a couple different reasons, I gained weight? Said reasons are both medical and psychological, and mostly consist of a combination of PCOS and overindulgence in chocolate as self-medication for depression because even when I wasn’t overweight, I was never skinny like the other girls my age and I felt like I was already “fat” so what did it matter? Some people are really susceptible to poor self-esteem and not good at handling it. How does that make it acceptable to discriminate against me? I was just a kid. And though I was actually extremely physically active and on athletic teams throughout my childhood and early adulthood, that wasn’t enough to compensate for the two problems listed above. My doctor finally put me on a low GI diet, and that has been helping me to lose weight. Cutting calories did absolutely nothing for me, and I already ate healthy food (excepting the aforementioned chocolate)…but low GI is slowly but surely working. I am kicking myself now about the eating habits I allowed myself when I was a miserable teenager, but how dare you expect all children to be able to handle such a potentially difficult time in their lives in the perfectly healthiest way? Some kids turn to cutting. Some of us develop eating disorders. For some people, they become obese because they don’t care and they actively allow it, or they’re uneducated about how to prevent it. But for a lot of us, it’s so much more complicated, and for any of us, it’s incredibly difficult to “do something about it”. I have worked my ass off for well over 5 months by amping up my workouts and by getting creative with my meals to avoid high GI foods, and I’ve only managed to lose 20 pounds so far. People with attitudes like yours are pretty sickening. I will never find any kind of discrimination acceptable, except maybe discrimination against idiots who don’t understand walking a mile in someone’s shoes before saying it’s okay to hate on them.
But time has proven that teens mimic movies. Clueless added dozens of new vocabulary words and styles into teenagers lives that a lot of people still use today. Amy Heckerling knew that movies could make teens do anything, and she purposely wrote her script, and hired a fashion designer etc that would help shape the teen culture after they saw the movie.
I’m a teacher, and lately my students keep saying “That is so fetch.”
Apparently sometime between the premiere of Meangirls and now, FETCH happened! Kids learn from movies. Just like Stephen Sondheim says “Careful the things you say, children will listen. Children may not obey, but children will listen. Children will see and learn.”
Are you saying it’s unrealistic for the kid to get mocked at high school for being gay? That doesn’t happen?
No, she is saying that film makes it seem okay to bash gay students.
The film also makes it seem okay to train your 11 year old daughter as an assassin. I don’t think it is meant to be used as a moral compass.
Excellent point, John.
And since when was this movie a realistic depiction of anything? You’re missing the point entirely–nothing about the mocking was treated with any weight to show that it is wrong; whether it happens or not is irrelevant. Here, being gay is used as a punchline in a way that the writers certainly would have thought twice about using race as a punchline. It’s lazy, cruel, and dangerous, and those that don’t see that are seriously out of touch. This kind of scene will be studied 50 years from now with awe from high school students at how rampant and acceptable sexism was when even their parents were alive, the way we did with slavery and racism.
Yes, Danny, exactly. Just like how movies used to have good likable characters rape women (Hitchccock’s “Marnie”) whereas now, attempted rape is regularly used as shorthand that the character is too evil to live.
It’s the “likable” characters saying “f*ggot” that kills me… and that helps kill real life kids. As you say “It’s lazy, cruel, and dangerous” and I would add, “and on the wrong side of history!”
And here I thought that teenage kids never say anything inappropriate or cruel, like ever. Those scenes in high school are soooooo farfetched, no teenager is that insensitive and mean! At that age and among those peer groups, everyone is mature enough to know the difference and would never attack someone who is “fill in blank” or “different”. Too bad movies have to make this stuff up.
I guess you just forgot about the Phoebe Price situation and how kids really can be mean to other kids…
I guess I should’ve wrote that I was typing with my sarcasm face on.
I got the sarcasm, it just took me a minute to do so.